+- Jamericans (https://jamericans.net/yellowboard)
+-- Forum: Jamaicaholics (https://jamericans.net/yellowboard/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Message Board (https://jamericans.net/yellowboard/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Thread: Unique? (/showthread.php?tid=100496)
Unique? - Westenders - 08-17-2014
Just my thoughts in response to a lot of posts and threads of late.
murder, robbery, gun crime, knife crime, rape, child abuse, sexual harassment, mental health illness, stalking, gangs, theft, poor parenting, lone parents, DV, elderly abuse, racism, discrimination, prejudice, poor social model of disability, human rights crimes, youth crime, high unemployment, sex offenders, perverts, homophobia, divorce, corrupt policing, unfair justice system, sexual exploitation, sex trafficking, human trafficking, modern day slavery, migration, corrupt landlords, promiscuity, poor housing, con artists, dysfunctional families, child prostitution, HIV, STI's, teenage pregnancy, child poverty, hunger, poor health, illiteracy, poverty, poor transport infrastructure, homelessness, begging, alcohol and drug dependence......
Unique to Jamaica, no! they are all highly prevalent in all of our countries.
The difference is that in our countries (Europe and the America's) there are public and voluntary services, legislation and pressure groups. In the uk we have a robust and comprehensive welfare system and free healthcare for not just British citizens but anyone who moves here from EU countries.
But even with all of that, statistically and proportionately per capita we have similar rates of some of these crimes, more of some and less of some.
Some we have just become more sophisticated at, such as internet crimes.
So our countries are doing better in some fields and just the same and worse in others, and we are (hate this old terminology) first world countries, while Jamaica is still recognised as a third world country.
Assumptions are often made that the tourist income, should mean that Jamaica doesn't stay in this third world state, however the GDP from tourism is only about 5-6%. And the international debt they have taken on swallows this up.
There are also assumptions made that a lot of people have blinders on and don't see the real Jamaica. Most people have seen a lot of different things, no-one is denying that these issues aren't present in Jamaica. My point would be that I am as aware of it as I am in my own country, well in my case I am more aware of it in my own country, it is not always overt, and as visitors not residents a lot of people don't see this stuff because its hidden and behind closed doors just like it is in our countries.
I often remark that Jamaica is about 100 years behind our countries, which is not excusing anything or anyone, but in reality I believe change will come, just like our countries have evolved and developed, and still are.
If you look at some Middle East and East European countries, they are very similar, with similar issues, and some live like we did in England hundreds of years ago not 100. The world is very diverse, and we are not all on a level playing field.
You simply cannot keep comparing Jamaica to the infrastructures we have in our countries.
The corruption in Government and the Police is so entrenched, I truly don't know how, other than a people's revolution, the Jamaican people can get rid of this.
Neither do I agree as Jamaica being part of the Commonwealth, our own Governments don't support this country more. I said in a previous post, if Jamaica had oil or minerals that we needed in our countries, we would have our big hands in their country by now.
I think, through our various connections empowering our friends, family and associates, not criticizing them would have greater value. Small changes lead to bigger changes.
For people that have been hurt and suffered in Jamaica and at home, I don't think anyone on this board will be without empathy and understanding, or don't believe that what has been said is not true. In todays world many of us will have or will know people who have suffered too, but not everyone has the inner strength to speak out, and I respect that too.
In our countries, the justice system does not always protect people and prevent or punish the harm either. And people don't often speak out until the perpetrator is dead, or families and individuals cover things up and protect them. Poor understanding by the police doesn't help here either, especially in DV, rape, harassment and child abuse cases. A lot of people aren't prosecuted because its your word against theirs, disgusting in my view. I see on a daily basis that we don't always get it right either.
So where we might have legislation, and Jamaica doesn't, they still don't always protect people, and our system doesn't always implement the legislation.
I always look at the links to articles that are posted, and find them interesting and informative always.
What I have struggled with of late, hence my post, is that in everyone of those articles there are also many positive stories about what Jamaicans and the authorities are trying to do across the island, and these are never highlighted.
In my training in anti-oppressive practice, I recognise that this sort of thing serves to oppress and hold people back more than it does to raise awareness and illicit change.
Evidence shows that recognising people and communities strengths and celebrating achievements encourages change, not telling people that they are bad and doing wrong. This is not even a recognised basic modern parenting technique any more.
There just is no balance on here a lot of the time, negativity dominates.
Media is also very manipulative and often wrong so I don't think it can or should be relied on in anyone's countries for a sole source of information.
Can you imagine what Jamaicans think of our society's when watching shows like Jerry Springer and Jeremy Kyle. Are those people representative of all of us?
I don't think so. Or reading articles in rags such as the Sun (UK) which is a very biased and covertly racist, right wing newspaper.
Sorry for the long post, many of you probably wont agree, but that's okay with me. This is just my opinion.
RE: Unique? - oldtimer - 08-17-2014
That was long !!!! But there is a lot of truth to it. Where can the changes start ? Bauxite was their biggest (next to ganja ) export and they sold it to the Chinese . I worked in the bauxite world for years as a welder and fabricator . I made more money than most of the locals BECAUSE I CAME TO WORK !!!!!!!! hourly our wage was the same but their work week seemed to be 20 hours a week . WHY ??? you ask because you can't party until dawn starting wed and stop mon morning. Was that everyone you ask...no but most . who's fault is that ? Culture they blame it on ...stay up all night and don't come to work . Now take Negril ..This is a tourist destination .Most tourists are there for a week AWAY FROM WORK !!!! or the hussle and busle of every day life. WHY !!!! then can't a 3 road town provide safety for TOURISTS !!!! this is a tourist town !!!! That is why AI's are the answer for that BUT they want the TOURISTS to go with their culture and stay up all night and walk UNSAFE ROADS !!!!! Who's fault is that ? A couple of hardcore changes is what's needed or DON'T CALL IT A TOURIST DESTINATION !!!
Then there is the rastatude issue or the perverted old guys with the girlfriends . Is that tourism or culture ??? It's a tough one EH !!!
Now having kids everywhere WHO'S FAULT IS THAT ??? Every Wed should be National Masturbation Day or something if that's all that is needed. Bring back the public gallows and whipping posts. A couple of rounds of that would open the eyes of the youth. This is my opinion only and not that of the station....hehehe
RE: Unique? - Blues Pirate - 08-17-2014
"Every Wed should be National Masturbation Day"
RE: Unique? - macyoder - 08-17-2014
I am for zero population growth so can help fund vasectomy kits. The culture is what it is, so men leaving their seed the way rats and mice leave their droppings is condoned. We (me and the mouse in my pocket) idolize artist who are known cheaters/breeders and womanizers, having multiple kids at the same time. GREAT and TALENTED artists but to consider a National hero, what message does that send or who cares? A place that uses prayer as the answer for everything, but engaged in a HATE rally against the weak, instead of showing love and support for the weaken. At the end of the day, a country or culture without a system in place to protect the weak and lesser is heart breaking no matter how beautiful. Jamaica is blessed with beauty, time to live up to it or call ourself Haiti.
Jamaica in the last 10 years has become less and less inviting for those who are seeking a vacation escape. As beautiful as the island, too many seek safety or peace booking A/I resorts. They went from the Sunset Jamaica Grande with 715 rooms 20 years ago, to the monstrosity known as the Palladium with rooms in the thousands.
OT- "Every Wed should be National Masturbation Day" - I read that extends life expectancy my 20 percent so some might be immortal
Yeah, Jamaica is unique as it is beautiful!
RE: Unique? - macyoder - 08-17-2014
On second thought, in other places it increases life expectancy by 20 percent but in Jamaica it will decrease birth rate by at least one.
RE: Unique? - Westenders - 08-17-2014
Hitler used to have a similar viewpoint about not allowing certain races to procreate !
While I agree and don't condone any man anywhere who does not raise their kids, even as a separated parent, we can only hope that young people don't idolise the values of some of the artistes they listen to. So using the benchmark described we should be ruling out Bob Marley as the Legend that he is celebrated as and seeing people like Michael Jackson who has stood trial for being a child abuser twice and who many still believe is guilty, be catapulted into being a hero after his death.
Couldn't agree more about the hypocracy of religion, but broaden that to everywhere. A lot of people around the world do a lot of nasty things in the name of religion. It takes more than banging a tambourine on Sunday or saying prayers five times a day to make up for the sins of the week.
Current examples, ISIS in Iraq, and the religious deep south and the continued presence of the KKK. This world is horrible in a lot of places.
It was only a couple of years ago that young people in London then around the country started to riot due to their frustrations from poverty, lack of opportunity and racism. The government threw some big money around after that, with projects and interventions still being delivered now through this funding, to change their experience and prevent it happening again. I'm not promoting riots, but the Jamaican people themselves need to do something. But cant see their government responding through investment, no sir.
Unique was a question not a statement..
In terms of the decline in visitors to Negril and Jamaica, that's not the feeling or information you get from Negril. Com or Tripadvisor, (really didn't want to quote them)who both quote an increase in tourism to Negril and have many repeat visitors both to AI or non AI. Everyone has a different experience in JA.
Lastly, I thought all men masturbated. so if doing this reduces many of the social problems, then I think it should be promoted more widely
RE: Unique? - macyoder - 08-17-2014
Zero Population Growth - "Zero population growth, sometimes abbreviated ZPG (also called the replacement level of fertility),[1] is a condition of demographic balance where the number of people in a specified population neither grows nor declines, considered as a social aim by some.[2] According to some, zero population growth is the ideal towards which countries and the whole world should aspire in the interests of accomplishing long-term environmental sustainability.[3]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_population_growth
Most couples I know can only fiscally, emotionally, and spiritually support 2 kids (replace yourself). Advocate of tuberisation or vaccestomy after this number is reached.
RE: Unique? - Westenders - 08-17-2014
Thank you Macy, I did interpret what you said differently, with the ZPG.
However on an island with population under 3 million this would not be appropriate in my opinion. Jamaica does not have a population problem, and I don't think its an answer to social problems.
I think it is definitely a human rights issue as well. China has one of the worst human rights records, so can see this is something they would implement.
I agree people should only have the children that they can afford. I only had two myself for this same reason.
Men are not only to blame for this in Jamaica or the rest of the world, we women can have a say in this, in terms of prevention through contraception, and choice of how to proceed with a pregnancy. And there's no accounting for the stupid women who have a child to a man with plenty of kids already, especially if he doesn't raise them. I would run a mile from a man like that, but not all women do.
In terms of China, I have read many stories over the years about parents who wanted sons, who have abandoned baby girls, often in derelict areas so that they can go on and have another baby which would be the longed for son.
Orphanages in China are full of girls due to this. So where as your suggestion is interesting, I don't think it is a humane policy.
RE: Unique? - rootswoman - 08-17-2014
This is a good thread a lot of thought has gone into it.
The first thing I want to address is the focus on the negative.
Many people say that this board is nothing but negative. Most every time I read or hear that, I look at the threads and I count how many are negative - it is usually 5-10% at the most. But, those are the threads that get the hits and those are the threads that get the comments. I see today the negative is a lot heavier than usual - I believe that is due to the recent shootings and rise in crime. In addition with all the advancements in technology, more and more of the stuff that was hidden from the public eye is coming into the light.
The difference in this board and all other forums is that this board was designed to discuss the things not allowed on the other boards - so yes - if it is negative, it gets discussed here. It was not designed to promote tourism, although most people seem to think that is what it should be. The name of the site was intended to be Jamaicaholics - that right there, may help you to understand that some folks are here to get over an addiction. Many people here have spent a great deal of their hard earned money visiting Jamaica repeatedly. They have sacrificed and perhaps even lowered the quality of their lives at home in order to spend time in Jamaica. They have been so caught up in giving and helping Jamaicans that they have neglected their own needs.
What has happened to so many who post here, is that Jamaica has broken their hearts and
meanwhile - while all the focus went to Jamaica their lives at home have suffered for it.
Tammy, the founder and owner of this board went though her own personal hell and saw the need for a place to make sense of it all.
Now with Facebook taking over it often feels like a sinking ship here. However this board is a lot more than just a place to bitch, moan and point fingers. This board is a community of people from all walks of life who have shared our good and our bad. We have been through births, deaths and everything in between. We have Old Timer as our Captain and as long as he is on board (even when he is cranky) I am going to be here too. I am not going to abandon this ship because as weird as it all is - the most important thing is that it is here if someone needs it.
There are plenty of places to go to talk about the good stuff in Jamaica but there is no other place where one can get a reality check. Between spin doctors, killing the messenger, and rose colored glasses if one goes elsewhere for that reality check the tables will turn on them. That's ok for tourist boards - but that is not who we are.
I understand why it is disturbing, but it is also disturbing to read about lots of things in life.
We do what we can to highlight trip reports at the top, recognize birthdays - start positive threads ext. But it is the people who post here who dictate what gets talked about.
We are do for some fun - that's for sure. We need another bad hair thread perhaps.
Now on to masturbation.
Good idea OT! I think you are on to something.
Weekly might work in Canada, but in the tropics it may need a daily. You know about 4:20 right? How can we make that phenomenon happen with masturbation. Gosh, but then we would have to deal with the pervs doing it publicly....ugh
No, but in all seriousness
I have heard Jamaicans react very negatively towards the act of masturbation and people claim that "I would NEVA do that".
I didn't understand it thoroughly, but I thought about it and realized that if I were raising a household of children - with multiple bodies sleeping in the same room, and often in the same bed, one would have to teach boundaries early on. Its easy to imagine strict mothers teaching their children that masturbation is evil in that sort of situation. Especially if that is what their parent taught them. I bet their have been many beatings from children caught with their pants down.
Has anyone else encounter this view?
RE: Unique? - Westenders - 08-17-2014
RW, I wanted to address some of your points if that's okay.
I sense that I have touched a nerve about talking about negativity on this board, however I did state at the start of my original post that it is a response to recent threads, which have been a response to some recent horrible events.
May I suggest that as a new member of the board that I might also be looking at the board with 'fresh eyes'. I don't think anything I have said falls outside of the category of reality check.
Im just not into negativity all the time, but that's me and that's my personality. Im not skipping through rose gardens looking at rainbows mostly myself, but I do like to look at the good and the bad side of things, and a lot of the time I just have a sick sense of humour about life here and in JA. Believe me, my husband often tells me im bright (in the Jamaican sense, not the intelligent sense) I call things how they are myself, but again I like to see good news as well as bad news,
I respect OT's directness, and his sharp wit framing everything he says. There are lots of valid points on the board too from a lot of people, but there is a lot of dismissive posts, people who have been going a long time, and some quite recent. I think im in the middle somewhere.
Some posters feel they are more than in the know, when we all have experiences to share and understand.
I can also see that a lot of people have experienced some crap in Jamaica, and believe me I have seen some crap there too and dodged some crap myself. Im not a naïve, gullible person by any means, shaped by my own life experiences. My two girls are 27 and 21, and there dad is Jamaican, so this stuff is not new to me.
I get that some on here have had it with Jamaica, I understand from what you say how it is cathartic for some people. But if people with a different opinion and a different experience are not welcomed, then that is very sad.
Everyone has a very different style of expressing themselves, im just getting used to that, and I see that this board is a community and a discussion board, but it sometimes feels very closed. I say that subjectively, not critically.
I don't think its disturbing to read the posts on here, as I said in my original post, there is nothing I read of in Jamaica that I don't read of or experience in England or pick up on the International news, but I do sometimes feel they are energy zapping. A reality check for me is the good and the bad, not just the bad.
Your right about the negative posts getting the most hits, that's true in life too, bad news sells. Its a shame though as at some point most will have had a great love for the country and many of its people, and many still do in a lot of ways. But I do agree that bad experiences with Jamaicans have contributed to those feelings, and they have to take responsibility for that.